Orders of the Day — Contributory Pensions Bill.

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am ar 15 Gorffennaf 1925.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Mr. TREVELYAN THOMSON:

The right hon. Gentleman gives us a very ingenious defence of the Clause with regard to the ethics of insurance. He said, the essence of insurance was varying risks. Might I suggest to him that another essential part of insurance is sanctity of contracts? Is it not a fact that when these various people took out their insurance policies under the 1910 and 1911 Act it was then understood that if they continued their contributions they would receive unemployment benefit up to the age of 70? Therefore, I submit that they entered into their contract with the State, and that contract provided in effect that they should have unemployment insurance benefit up to 70, if not afterwards. There was no limit then that they should have to stop at 65, and because you subsequently bring in another Measure that may be perfectly right, and no doubt is. for policies taken out after that date, surely it does not invalidate policies taken out prior to that date. In the ordinary insurance world, if such a. proposal were brought forward it would meet with condemnation from all business men. Here is a contract entered into for the payment of certain premiums and for certain benefits to be paid. If it so happens that up to the age of 65 the worker has the misfortune not to draw anything—I gather from the right hon. Gentleman that he has no cause of complaint against the insurance, because he has the good luck not to require it—but if after the age of 65 he happens to have a misfortune and to fall out of work, surely he has the right to claim the full measure of unemployment benefit when that happens? I cannot see how any private insurance company could possibly justify the breaking of a bargain which has been entered into previously by saying we will give you some other policy which we think is as good for you, but which was not in the bargain. It may be desirable for everybody to retire at 65. [An HON. MEMBER: "Even the Attorney-General!"] That is not the question we have to consider, but surely it is a great interference with the rights of individual liberty for this or any Government to say in effect: "You must retire at 65!" That is the sum and substance of this particular Sub-section.

I do appeal to the right hon. and learned Gentleman to reconsider the position and, having regard to the fact that, if my assumption is correct, a contract was entered into with all insured persons that they should have unemployed benefit so far as they fulfilled their part of the bargain, you have no right to say that, because you introduce a pensions Bill which will give them a pension at 65, they must be denied the rights which otherwise would accrue to them. It does seem to me a case unanswerable in justice and in equity.