In rising to address the House on this all-important matter of export trade, I should like, if I may, to traverse some of the ground which has already been covered by the hon. Mover and the hon. Seconder of the Motion. Both of them, it was obvious, were dealing with the subject of industrial research, and yet in their Motion for the appointment of this Committee, I find no recommendation that anybody having the slightest knowledge of scientific research should be appointed to the Committee. That, I think, is something which could be remedied. We are all in this House agreed, I think, that our future as a country will depend on the export of that priceless possession of the British race—its ideas. We must export ideas, even although they may have been materialised before leaving this country. The hon. Member for North Cornwall (Sir C. Marks) has referred to the pioneer work of James Watt, and I should like to remind him that both James Watt and Adam Smith were professors of the same University. While the one man supplied the world with the creative idea, which is the fountain of the industrial life, not only of this country but of the whole world, the other, by initiating an entirely different principle—the mere acquisition, and not the creation of wealth—has been responsible for a good deal of our industrial unrest for a great part of the last century. In other words, we have not only to consider this matter from the point of view of raw materials, the export of manufactured products and the sustenance of this nation, but we also have to consider the relations of finance to industry, and I should have liked to have seen, also, the recommendation that at least one representative of the big financial interests should have been upon this Committee as such.

I should like to say, also, in passing, with regard to the composition of the committee which it is suggested should be set up, that a committee already exists. It is true, it has no great powers; it is an advisory committee. Above all, it is suggested in the Motion that no such Department as the Board of Trade exists. I would like to suggest that we have a Board of Trade which has been attempting to perform for this country for many years the function which it is suggested this small committee should deal with in the space of two or three months. This is a very, very short time to review all the possibilities of the export trade of this country, and shall I say that anything done for the export trade must depend on the internal condition of the country? I think that I should hardly favour the kind of committee that has been suggested in the Motion. I would rather favour a fuller and more intensive inquiry into the whole matter and that we should have no time limit put upon the production of their report.

The question of the supply of raw materials is, as the hon. Member for Plymouth (Sir A. Shirley Benn) has said, one which must exercise the minds of every Member of this House. But I should just like to point out to both the Mover and the Seconder that there has been in the last few years substitutes discovered for many of the raw materials which are grown naturally. One can imagine what would happen to the silk industry of this country if we had to depend on overseas for our raw silk rather than on the scientific men who have discovered the process by which artificial silk can be made. One could go through the whole of the category of the various scientific discoveries in this country during the last 100 years, which have contributed so vastly to the national wealth, and which, if rightly used, could have contributed so materially to the welfare of the whole of the people of this country. I am one of those who refuses to believe that this country is overstocked with human material. I believe that the world is not overcrowded, but is quite sparsely populated. I am one of those who believe that man is a scarce animal on the face of the earth. I believe that if only the whole earth was brought under some scientific survey by the best scientific minds of all countries, not merely of this country, and if the financiers of the world also made up their minds to get back to their proper functions, and not to command industry, but to serve it as they originally did, that that would contribute to the happiness of the world, and the country would not be faced with the necessity of piling armaments upon armaments in the, everlasting race for supremacy.

9.0 P.M.

During the last few weeks we have heard of a discovery by Mr. Grindell Matthews. It is attributed to him that he has discovered a ray with extraordinary properties. The suggestion is that he can pass an intensive ray of electricity along a beam of light, using the beam of light as a conductor. I do not know whether he would agree with the suggestion that is made or not, but I understand he has patented his invention, and that there is some danger of the invention being taken up by another country. One is aghast at the idea whenever any invention of this kind is suggested in this country, or any other civilised country, that the first suggestion that is made by the thinkers—by the thinkers all over the world—when such a new instrument has been discovered, is not that of doing some good to the world, but that it may or should be used for destroying humanity, and destroying the best of humanity. All the way through one will find it is the same thing. The same process that will turn out poison gas will turn out the most beautiful dyes. Merely a slight change in the end of a series of processes will convert the one thing to something entirely different in its effects. Professor Soddy has rightly said that man, particularly civilised man, seems to have been using the discoveries of science which have given him such command over natural processes, not to build up the civilisation of the world and to add to its material and intellectual progress, but with the enthusiasm of a lunatic asylum to destroy and ruin it. That is essentially the case.

You have the Haber process of producing nitrogen from the air which would have supplied us with fertilisers for the whole of the world. Those fertilisers would give to us what we all require in this country—increased yield of our crops and reduced cost of production. But the first immediate purpose to which such scientific discovery was put was to supply explosives in order to blow men to bits. Something like 14,000,000 of civilised persons have either been blown to bits or rendered unfit for any further useful work for the community. We are facing now quite glibly the possibilities of a new war. So one can rejoice at the Motion which has been moved and with the sentiments expressed by the two hon. Members who have moved and seconded it. In its essence it is that we should get this exhaustive inquiry into the whole world resources.

An impartial inquiry upon the matter would have to bring in the whole of the scientific men so that they might apply their minds as to what is best in the same way as you here have them apply their science to the arts of war. When we have that, there is no question about it, that civilised man will find a way out of the present impasse, different to this ceaseless competition in the markets of the world, and will realise that there is room for all of us. I have already said that I myself am convinced that this country is not over-populated. Last week we had the melancholy spectacle of a number of adherents of a certain economic faith trying to persuade us that by the removal of certain duties which were put on for one purpose we should be entirely ruining an industry. The hon Member for North Cornwall (Sir G. Croydon Marks) tells us the following week that this country's greatness has been built upon its craftsmen: upon the intelligence and educated intelligence of its people. He tells the House that we have a tradition of craftsmanship in this country which has never been equalled the whole world over.

Only last year I spent a considerable time not only going through various universities on the Continent, but going amongst the firms that were making scientific instruments. I am interested in the subject, and in the production of scientific instruments. I remember in Vienna I went into the works of Reichardt's, the great optical manufacturers. I was examining and criticising one of the particular instruments which they produced, that is an epidiascope. In response to my observations the manager of the concern said, "It is true in that respect it is not all that it might be: it could be a much better instrument, but the trouble is that since the beginning of the War we have not been able to get your English craftsmen over here to work in our workshops, because we cannot afford to pay them the wages they want." He said that your best English craftsmen are going to America. On my return to this country I was happy to be present at a meeting of the British Association for the Advancement of Science, held at Liverpool, and I was examining there some of the scientific instruments which were being exhibited by various makers and agents.

Speaking to one of the agents I repeated to him the remark of the manager of the firm of Reichardt's in Vienna, and he said, "Well, there is no question about it that if the British manufacturers would only be content with a smaller margin of profit, if only they would have a little more courage and be prepared to develop a market which already is in existence, there is no reason at all why the British scientific instrument should not be the peer of any scientific instrument which is being produced in the whole world." He said it is true that in reality the German scientific instrument makers base their optical industry upon the elaborate researches of Abbé, and that is where the German manufacturer has scored. I say this without regard to Free Trade or Protectionist principles. I should say that very few people are doctrinaire Free Traders now, judging from the spectacle we witnessed last week when quite a large number of Free Traders walked into the Lobby with the Protectionists.