Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am ar 27 Gorffennaf 1923.
Mr William Pringle
, Penistone
The concluding observations of the Solicitor-General are the finest illustration of the difficulties and embarrassments to which both he and his learned colleague have been reduced in this Debate. In reply to the question of the hon. Member for West Woolwich, as to whether the opinion of Judges or societies could be quoted in favour of this Bill, the hon. and learned Gentleman referred to a statement of the present Lord Chief Justice in 1920 to the effect that the Judges approved of the Act of 1920, and said that therefore they would approve of this Bill. But immediately he said: "You must not quote Lord Justice Bankes, Lord Justice Atkin, or Lord Justice Scrutton, because the Act of 1920 does not apply there." I suggest that when you have a gentleman, who is so acute as the Solicitor-General usually is, reduced to such a position of dialectical imbecility, there is really something wrong with it. A further interesting light is thrown on this matter by the hon. and learned Gentlemen's speech. I am sorry to say I did not hear the speech of the right hon. and learned Attorney-General, but I have heard a good deal second hand of what he said, and I have had the advantage of hearing some of his own explanations or repetitions of what he said, so that I can gather, to some extent, the line he took. There is no doubt that the impression he conveyed to the House in his Opening Speech was that this Bill was practically a restoration of the pre-War system.
Until my hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Shields (Mr. Harney) spoke, I think the Majority of the lay Members of the House were prepared to accept that conclusion. Since he spoke, however, and since other hon. Members, like the hon. Member for West Woolwich (Sir K. Wood) have made their contributions to the Debate, it is safe to say that the illusion has been completely dispelled. Further, the hon. and learned Solicitor-General has had to give away the case with both hands. Nobody has ever contended, on either side of the House, that this Bill does not extend the right as compared with the Act of 1920, and, therefore, when the Solicitor-General argues the matter on the basis of the Act of 1920 he is simply darkening counsel. He is endeavouring to minimise the extent to which the former rights enjoyed by His Majesty's subjects are being restricted by this Bill. I am not going to quote the statements of Lord Justice Atkin and Lord Justice Eldon Bankes. They have been quoted often, but I can say this, that practically every criticism which they made on the Act of 1920 applies to the proposals in this Bill. They were a definite condemnation of the taking away of pre-War rights; that was the whole force of them.
Indeed, in the judgment of Lord Justice Eldon Bankes, which I hold in my hand, he sketched the whole history of trial by jury and the various developments of the right. His criticism of the Act of 1920 was that the rights which had been enjoyed before were taken away. He said:
If matters are to remain in their present position, it is clear that any right to a jury in an action in the King's Bench Division, except in the enumerated cases, is abolished. … I trust, however, that the other aspect of the case may also be considered, namely, whether the right to a trial by jury is not sufficiently important to be restored and maintained.
Restored and maintained!
The Opening Speech is the first speech in a debate. The MP who has moved, or proposed, the motion outlines their view of why the House should adopt the motion.
The term "majority" is used in two ways in Parliament. Firstly a Government cannot operate effectively unless it can command a majority in the House of Commons - a majority means winning more than 50% of the votes in a division. Should a Government fail to hold the confidence of the House, it has to hold a General Election. Secondly the term can also be used in an election, where it refers to the margin which the candidate with the most votes has over the candidate coming second. To win a seat a candidate need only have a majority of 1.
The House of Commons votes by dividing. Those voting Aye (yes) to any proposition walk through the division lobby to the right of the Speaker and those voting no through the lobby to the left. In each of the lobbies there are desks occupied by Clerks who tick Members' names off division lists as they pass through. Then at the exit doors the Members are counted by two Members acting as tellers. The Speaker calls for a vote by announcing "Clear the Lobbies". In the House of Lords "Clear the Bar" is called. Division Bells ring throughout the building and the police direct all Strangers to leave the vicinity of the Members’ Lobby. They also walk through the public rooms of the House shouting "division". MPs have eight minutes to get to the Division Lobby before the doors are closed. Members make their way to the Chamber, where Whips are on hand to remind the uncertain which way, if any, their party is voting. Meanwhile the Clerks who will take the names of those voting have taken their place at the high tables with the alphabetical lists of MPs' names on which ticks are made to record the vote. When the tellers are ready the counting process begins - the recording of names by the Clerk and the counting of heads by the tellers. When both lobbies have been counted and the figures entered on a card this is given to the Speaker who reads the figures and announces "So the Ayes [or Noes] have it". In the House of Lords the process is the same except that the Lobbies are called the Contents Lobby and the Not Contents Lobby. Unlike many other legislatures, the House of Commons and the House of Lords have not adopted a mechanical or electronic means of voting. This was considered in 1998 but rejected. Divisions rarely take less than ten minutes and those where most Members are voting usually take about fifteen. Further information can be obtained from factsheet P9 at the UK Parliament site.