Orders of the Day — ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILL [Lords].

Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am ar 27 Gorffennaf 1923.

Danfonwch hysbysiad imi am ddadleuon fel hyn

Photo of Mr Edward Harney Mr Edward Harney , South Shields

I am very much obliged to my hon. Friend. His question was intended very kindly, and was quite proper. I really did not intend to say anything about women on juries, but since he has put it to me, I will do so. I have always been in favour of women sitting on juries, not because I believe they will bring any greater wisdom to the decisions than a man would do, but for the very reason I have just put. If you have two or three women on a jury, when the jurymen come to consider their verdict each asks the opinion of Ms fellowman. With the gallantry that is natural, and I hope always will be natural, toward women, they ask them first, "What is your view?" and they get the woman's aspect. In that way what does emerge from a mixed jury is even more valuable—because you get the opinion of the majority of the whole community, so to speak—than if you had a jury composed only of men. I would have men and women—butcher, baker, rich or poor, all sections of the community—drawn at random; the idea being that you would get into the jury box a fair section of the humanity that walks the streets. Whatever view that section forms as between the two parties—it may or may not be abstract justice—will be the view that their fellow men and fellow women form, and that is the nearest we can hope to get in the line of justice.

I submit that unless the right hon. and learned Attorney-General is as good as his word and agrees to delete this Clause, we ought to reject the Bill. I understand him to say that if he were really satisfied that the jury system—in which, apparently, he believes quite as strongly as I do—were in any way encroached upon by this Measure, he would be with me in seeing that that encroachment was removed. I understand his point to be this, however, "We really are giving greater facilities for trial by jury than you had before the War." If he still thinks that, and I doubt if he can, then the House, which has heard me—I hope I have made myself clear—must express its own opinion, and I can put in one sentence the three things it has to consider. First, the pre-War position was absolute and unqualified right to a jury; second, the War position was the right to a jury if the Judge thought it was a case fit for a jury and, third, the position under the Bill is that there is a right to a jury unless the Judge thinks it is a case more fit for him. It is true the right is more extensive if you say, "You shall have a jury unless the Judge is more fit to try the case" than to say "You shall have a Judge unless the Judge is more fit to try the case." There is a difference in the areas covered, but I am not concerned with that difference. Whichever area is covered, there is a discretion in a Judge, and in regard to that discretion, it would require a metaphysician to decide whether it will fall within one category or the other. What I quarrel with is that whether you, take the War position or the position as outlined under this Bill, for the first time in the history of British jurisprudence, you take away an absolute right and substitute for it some form of discretion. We are entitled to get back to the old absolute right and if the Attorney-General does not agree to that, I hope the House will vote in favour of my Amendment.