Part of the debate – in the House of Commons am ar 25 Gorffennaf 1922.
Major BARNES:
I am dropping the term "price," and using the term "consideration." There is to he a transfer, and I understood my hon. Friend to say, when putting the case, that the consideration for the transfer would he affected by the presence of Clause 15, that Clause 15 would have a discounting effect, and that, therefore, no one would be prejudiced, because the whole thing was voluntary. The case against Clause 15, as it has been put to me and to a number of other Members in the House, is that really its presence in the. Bill will affect these transfers. I have had placed in my hands the case against Clause 15 which has been formulated by a number of local authorities, who are not even satisfied with the new Clause. In dealing with the effects of the Clause, and speaking subject to the way in which the Bill is now affected by the new Clause, to which I will refer in a moment, they refer to the advantages that are expected to accrue from the establishment of joint electricity authorities—advantages of generating cost—and say that the stations referred to within the area of a power company will be shut out entirely from those advantages, and may be compelled to sell current at increased prices owing to their being compelled to take supplies from the power company. The position therefore, is that they cannot transfer their station to a joint electricity authority. I take it that they mean that they will he prejudiced, and must, therefore, go on with what may he an inefficient station; or, if they transfer their station to the joint electricity authority, the joint electricity authority would be in a position to recoup themselves by the supply of current to that station. Their opinion, therefore, is that the presence of this Clause will really prejudice the transfer of these generating stations. They go on to point out that, if the Clause is passed as it stands, the effect will be that every local authority affected will oppose the establishment of the joint electricity authority, so that one of the prime considerations of the Act of 1919 will he difficult to realise. Finally, they prophesy—prophecy is always dangerous, but still it is their view, and I think the House is entitled to be made aware of it—that local authorities will refuse to assist in the financial arrangements necessary for joint electricity authorities as provided for in the present Bill. From all points of view, therefore, they conclude, the Clause, so far from assisting to provide a cheap and abundant. supply of electricity, threatens very seriously to have the opposite effect.
That was their view of Clause 15 as it stood. Since then, the new Clause has been put down by the Parliamentary Secretary, and it was within the cognisance of those who were drawing up this case. Their view in regard to the situation is that even the new Clause does not protect them as they think they ought to be protected. It does not meet the situation in which they think they will be placed, and does not save them from the necessity of pressing for the deletion of Clause 15. As I understand, and as they appear to understand, the new Clause gives to the Electricity Commissioners power to exclude from the area of a power company certain areas, and, therefore, may be used as a safeguard. On that point I would say that, if Clause 15 is really going to do no harm at all, I do not quite understand why a safeguard should have been introduced. If these powers are to be used as a safeguard, it is pointed out that the procedure of removing a part of an area from the jurisdiction of a power company is very difficult. It requires a special Order, which can only be made, after inquiry, and must first be submitted to the House of Commons and the House of Lords and receive the affirmative decision of each House. There is no guarantee that such a proposal to remove part of an area from the jurisdiction of a power company would not be very bitterly opposed in either or both of the Houses, so that even this proposal does not meet the case, inasmuch as the remedy is contingent, while the evil which it is sought to remedy is actually accomplished if Clause 15 be passed. That is the view of a great many local authorities, and I do not think it has been entirely met by the Parliamentary Secretary. In Clause 15 provision is certainly made for supplies being taken from a power company on a basis which is not at all satisfactory, namely, upon the basis of the cost a production, which is laid down in the Bill as having to take into account certain elements. I think the situation would have been very much better if the Government had seen their way to leave these generating stations to be supplied upon a competitive basis. If the power company wish to take their supply from the joint electricity authority by all means let them do so, but at present I do not feel that either the Bill or the Government has been cleared of the charge levelled against them by my hon. Friend the Member for West Middlesbrough (Mr. Thomson), that, if this Clause be inserted, despite the safeguards, what will happen will be that consumers in particular areas will be loaded with a cost which, if the Clause, were not in the Bill, they would not be called upon to bear.